The question here becomes: What does lost mean? Is it declaring Eve the responsible person for bringing them both out of lostness?. No, this is not the case when Adam responds by saying he could have joyed immortal bliss with Eve. Here it is implied that Eve was lost when she went out wandering, discovered Satan, and ate the fruit which brought only Evil into the world. So then the question becomes: Where is her love and affection for her first paramour, Adam, the sole Father of all Mankind when she guiltily blames and accuses him of taking part in the first crime against God which he had no part in?. Another question: If Adam suggested he needed more hands to trim his garden in paradise, what could God have offered to Adam and Eve without Evil?. Perhaps something not as revolting as the present unethical, corrupt, polluted, arguing, angry, contentious, disobedient, destructive, and dying world we live in now?.

Adam feels she did not restrain herself adequately enough in light of God and Adam's lone love for her. How could she have followed someone else other than Adam and God?.

Adam Plaintively tells how he conscientiously described and warned her of the real dangers inherent in her parting from his close supervision.

Apparently Adam's warning was quickly forgotten by Eve when Satan was whispering into her ear and enticing her away. Does this mean that woman is extremely forgetful of the affections of her husband, his admonitions, and his accomplishments in God's favor?. These questions come along with Eve's transgression. They are all extremely disturbing questions for Man as a lover, fiance, or husband. protecting her from danger and wandering off then becomes Man's primary responsibility because she cannot accept the responsibility for herself or for her man. How pathetically helpless she seems to be or even perhaps pretends to be which could be even more disturbing. This kind of pretending in women I have heard about many times.

Adam declares that force upon free will has no place if Eve truly expected him to use force to keep her true to He and His God.

Adam does not believe in force to alter human beings' behavior and follows God's teachings and spoken truths about free will. Eve here was the human being who made the decision to bring death, Evil, disobedience and destruction into a world where free will was to be enforced by God and human beings introduced into death, Evil, disobedience, and destruction. These human beings must make choices as Eve has and yet Eve has clearly decided by her thoughts and actions that bringing Evil, death, disobedience and destruction into the world will not result in an unethical world which is clearly not a very rational argument. Therefore irrationality has been brought into the world. Eve's actions no longer follow her words. Will the woman always be irrational and can she ever provide that loving sustenance Adam and God have been looking for in Adam's sole companion, the companion of Man?. She wants Adam to force her love rather than winning it by good behavior or just expecting it from Eve as something normal and natural for her to do. I would suggest to you, here, that there is harmful force and harmless force, one being more gentle and positive than the other. Here, perhaps, is Milton's own false and incomplete comprehension of the dualistic nature of force. God and his teachings were supposed to be the harmless force and the threat of potential death and expulsion from Eden to be harmful force. Adam, with God, represent the harmless force of moral teachings.

Adam tells her that she has been too secure in her confidence and that is what bore her on to entertain their destruction through a trial she obviously failed.

This is clearly an admonishment about overconfidence in undertaking anything for anyone without the maturity developed of strong testing and trial where Adam's basic mistake may have been in trusting of her innocence and undeveloped strength. Adam was clearly overconfident about Eve's maturity and judgement. He had been taking lessons from God and the angels while Eve had not been taking lessons from anyone but Adam, but then the question becomes: If Eve was under Adam's tutelage and Adam was under God's tutelage where would have been the significant difference, respect for God's word rather than respect for Adam's word?? And as I read this text, it has become clear to me that Adam was much more securely in God's trust than Eve was in Adam's. Her betrayal of Adam's trust was the most severe and personal of the crimes against Adam. The breach against God was much smaller; God was not punished and taken out of Paradise.

Adam declares Eve the accuser, blaming him for a crime he did not commit. Adam declares that it shall thenceforth befall men who over trust in a woman's worth and let her rule, if she is tempted of evil, she will first accuse him of his own weak indulgence with morality and ethic in women.

The accuser was supposedly Satan, a male angel, but here it becomes obvious that it is Eve who first becomes the accuser. So the questions arise: Who is Satan?. The female of the species?. Is she really the weaker sex or is she just more evil?. It becomes clear that she becomes all of the above except perhaps the Satan itself. The reason I say itself here is similar to Milton's poetic illustration of Satan. Satan is a state of mind only.

As far as the matter of her irrational accusations of Adam in the face of her faithlessness, I can only point out that Adam was obedient to God, so why could he not expect obedience from Eve?. He taught her everything God taught him. Fundamentally there was no difference. The only difference was the teacher; God or Man as the woman's teacher?. The woman selected to abuse God and Man and chose the Satan's word that she shall be a God. Therefore she and Adam both lost God and Godliness although Adam for love and Eve for kingdom, power, glory, and exaltation equal to God. Then, again, the question becomes: Was she the legitimate Satan or is it wrong to want to be equal to God?. Then another question arises withn Christianity: Christ supposedly was a man equal to God. Is anyone equal to God, the silent one since the Fall from Eden or Paradise?? Christ was supposedly half-man/half-God. I have read the apocrypha and the young Christ apparently either killed two young boys bringing only one back to life or the writer or writers of these works were attempting to discredit Christ. With what we know about our world being situated within an enormous Universe of stars, potentially planets, and potentially other life forms, where is our God, now silent, what are his powers, is he male, female, or both, and if so how can any 1 individual call themselves God above the rest?. And with a world of suffering people, what human being, even Godly, can be trusted to bring us out of our problems ethically and peacefully except God Itself disincluding man or woman?. And if Eve can by herself disobey God, how can God get unpeaceful, disobedient people to follow His or Hers, or Its suggestions to be compliant and peaceful and ethical?. What if they don't have the opportunity or desire to learn ethics?. In our complicated world, what is ethic?.

In the wickedly bent world in which we all live with the killing, the sexual assaults, and all of the other crimes against ethic that overconfident human beings steeped in personal pain commit, I see there being only one ethic against sin: "Do unto others what you would have them do unto you." There is a story in one of the apocrypha about the boy Christ didn't kill but withered:

I would assume the boy's parents came with the child and spoke to Joseph. Joseph probably asked Christ, "Did you do this?" Christ probably said he did. Joseph then asked Christ to heal the boy like he would heal himself. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Christ then healed the first boy, but left his arm withered. But along with this, an ending would have to be made to sin: "He or she who be without sin cast the first stone, recognize your sin, and go and sin no more." These words are ascribed to Christ, but, as I stated earlier, no existent living consciousness is God, Only representatives of God. Christ, too, was part human being. What about Buddha, or Muhammad, or Krsnä?. All men and all representatives of God, but not God Itself.

What about sister Theresa or any other fine, outstanding, ethically attuned human being?. They are not God either?. What about Satan?. No one is God but God. You cannot make yourself God just by fighting your way to the top against him and against ethic. God is incorporeal and it is my belief that this is where God should stay, must stay, and will stay as long as there is sin in the world. This truly is the way Adam originally was taught.

Northrop Frye declares that Adam was part and parcel the accomplice of Eve in the paracide of Adam and Eve's children because Adam was so uxorious about his affections for Eve that he also chose death with Eve and death for his potential and future children with Eve. Adam did not have choice. Eve stole Adam's choice in the matter by choosing death when she falsely presumed herself alone. When she chose to disobey God and Adam because the talking snake had cleverly removed her doubts about disobedience by developing in her a false rational for eating the fruit forbidden by God she effectively became death's possession and, perhaps, if Adam had not loved her anymore, Satan's possession in death.

If Adam truly loved her, as God and the angels desired, how could he leave her to death alone or with Satan and choose to live himself, blissfully with another Eve?? One choice, to not love Eve and blissfully live with another in Paradise, becomes the easy choice. The more difficult choice, although not as difficult a choice as actually dying instantaneously, is to continue to be true to Eve and to continue to love the altered, disobedient, evil, rationalizing, disposition of Eve which pits God against Satan, God against Man, Man against Satan, Satan against Man, man against man, god against god, god against man, and man against woman. Whenceforth love??

Adam loved Eve in the unfallen state in Paradise. Eve had stolen Adam's choice. Adam had no choice. Adam ate the fruit forbidden by God. Paracidal, mildly heroic, greatly heroic, or an utterly meaningless act of suicide? Adam was a heroic lover. It was an act of love. Not the greatest act of love, by any means, but the first heroic act of love. They knew not their future. God could have killed them both and left them with no life after Paradise for their acts of disobedience. Extinct forever?? Perhaps it was Adam's act of semi-sacrificial love which convinced God to let them live after Paradise. Adam did not know whether they would live or die for eternity. But he knew no pain and did not know how they would be murdered by God.

Stanley Eugene Fish makes another unusual point by stating that Adam was a more public and false hero than Christ apparently because Christ supposedly did not know what the outcome of his death would be and Adam did because Eve had eaten the fruit of death and still lived in an abusive, unreasonable, disobedient and irrational state of mind. Christ died in front of the two or perhaps three women who loved him which is about as public as a man's death could be if we presume that he loved them. Christ knew what pain was, but no one knows what pain really is until they feel it for themselves. No one knows death until they feel it for themselves. No one knows anything until they experience or think of it themselves. We all are imprisoned alone with ourselves. We do not even know if anything outside of ourselves exists. We only know the experience of pain through others.

Christ was more of a hero than Adam only because he could experience his future pain through others, but his heroism was not less public than Adam's heroism. The only abuse Adam suffered was his and God's rejection by Eve. He was willing to die, but he knew only psychological and ethical pain. The experience of seeing physical pain was the only thing that made Christ more of a hero. At least in theory.

Here we get to Eve's consciousness when she ate the apple as a representative of people in their daily lives experiencing good and evil and their own rationals with or without God and Satan. We can be abusive if we desire. If we do not know rationality and do not pursue it outside of ourselves we will continue to be irrational and rationalize everything. If our spiritual leaders, the pantheon's of presumed reason, critics, Christ, Mohammad, Buddha, Krsnä, the Aztec priests, the witchdoctors of Africa, any religious figure who declares he has been given a vision by God, are irrational or abusive, either one or the other or both, how are we to know it? We only know God through others or the incorporeal God's powerful acts. But how are we to recognize God's powerful acts from those of Satan's powerful acts?? It is all up to the individual consciousness to decided to recognize good or evil and it is next to impossible to know this unless, like a child under the tutelage of it's parent or parents, we choose to educate ourselves about all aspects of God and Satan, if there is really an actual Satan who is only evil.

Eve was taught by God and Adam. The teachings were insufficient to give Eve the capacity to reason against the talking snake or whatever it represented. Her desire to glorify herself as a goddess was a condition of her glorification, with Adam, as the soul human existence and conditioned by the exaltation of talking with God, a (G)god, who's voice walked with Adam and Eve as they did in Paradise and had given them the form of his image.

All any physical or conscious human being can do is represent God, represent Satan, or represent Man or Man's pain. No one is a god and no one is God but the incorporeal God who has given us life. It makes absolutely no reasonable sense to compare one form of heroism to another as far as greatness. It makes absolutely no sense to compare states of blame, evil, or goodness infront of the God who created us and, if he, she, or it, took on a body, he, she, or it would not call himself, herself, or itself GOD.

God is fated to exist. He did not create himself. He just is. Yet he still owes fate for his existence. If this world doesn't destroy itself, Adam and Eve will have been exonerated by fate. God is not exonerated by fate. God is exonerated by will alone. With God's power all things earthly become a necessary game. Unless God wills different, the pain game will continue. Humans cannot even think a thought without God putting it into their heads, but at the same time, God presently fills the heads with false karma generated from the original sin of Adam and Eve. If this continues as predicted until Judgement Day, the wicked will continue to be wicked and the good will continue to be good. Only God's will can heal the negative Karma of the collective Adam and Eve just as God took away their bright natures and replaced it with a brutish demeanor. I would hope that God will exercise his will and Judgement Day will never occur. Adam cannot be severe with Eve, if he loves her. God cannot continue to be severe and not bring back the Paradise bright natures with the fallen world without remaining the only true sinner of Man.

The book Beloved. Makumba, and their raft from Victoria Falls to the Himalayas during the Great Biblical Flood...

Jared, the probable narrator of the First and Second Book of Adam and Eve...

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